White Hairs

[rachel]

So, the only Thrianta does I've been able to find in the state so far have some issues. One of them I'm rather liking, her color is deep in most areas but seems like it fades out a touch in others AND, there are white hairs. I like her type, good ears and head.

So, my question is, could the fact that this doe was kept with lots of other rabbits and in generally rather poor condition when I got her have anything to do with these white hairs? Many of them on her ears and such almost look like spots where she's been bitten.

I do plan on breeding her regardless since I've got nothing to lose and no other real options right now, but I'm wondering what the odds are of the white popping up later on down the line if I do happen to get kits that are free of white.

Also, at what age can you expect to see the white hairs? Part of me would just as soon cull early, though I do hope to be able to sell to the pet market to recover some of the investment on these buggers.

[rachel]

Hi Ken, yes, my buck is from Leslie (who has been great and is being a good mentor.)

I was just going over the doe today and thought of that, so I thought I would put it up here.

I am moving out of state in the fall, so will have a wider selection down South, but I have these two girls and am curious to see what my buck throws with them since he's never been bred. I will almost 100% not be keeping any offspring for breeding purposes, or pass them to anyone else with that intent, but I am anxious to have some bunnies around.

[Demi]

I have two thriantas from different breeders, one bun has a few scattered white hairs (not that noticable) and one clump of them on her shoulder. My buck I think has a few but you can barely tell.

[rachel]

Well, I just had a litter of 8 born to the original doe in question, so I guess I will be able to tell you shortly! She just had too many good qualities not to at least give it a chance. (And is turning out to be a fantastic mother, and EIGHT!!! I was not expecting so many.)

[Briana]

wow! Good luck with all those babies! lol

[rachel]

So, when do you all think I should be able to spot white hairs?

[tundratreasures]

Defiantly they start to show after the first coat, I have a friend with polish, and she complains about solids from brokens, as they always, eventually get ticking...

I have some that started to show after the first full coat change, and other that developed some latter, it's something to watch for after molts.

[rachel]

Just an update, interesting results.

Out of the litter of 8, I have one little doe (the best typed doe, of course,) with a tiny white spot low on her hindquarters. You can't see it at all unless you look VERY carefully, but it is there.

None of the others are exhibiting any white hairs at all at 4 months and have turned out very well. I think this line has a lot to offer, so I am going to keep one of the does with no white. The color is incredible and the type is an improvement over the parents, I also want to encourage these large litters, excellent mothering, and general hardiness and vitality.

Hopefully with careful culling I won't be seeing any white at all within a couple of generations. I don't think it's a good enough reason not to use a nice rabbit that brings a lot to the table. Breeding it out should be just like breeding out any other faults, but will be easier to cull for than, say, bad type or mealy color.

[tundratreasures]

Um, don't know Rachel, if the ticking is from PATTERN, and not color genetic, then you are dealing with a recessive AND possibly modifiers, so you could have both pattern (ENEN- charley or no nose marking, or ENen which would have a light nose) broken, but minimally marked (eyes base of tale) get a cross with non broken but having ++ genes, so you get white spots

Now if someone could point to where silvering/ticking comes from I would appreciate it, because it seems like it could come from a few places.

[rachel]

My understanding is that scattered white hairs/ticking/whatever you want to call it is due to the same gene, si, regardless of how heavy it is. This is the same gene in play in the d'Argents, Silvers, and Silver Fox. It would not surprise me at all to discover that some of the lines we imported had Silver in them. They are a similar sized rabbit, and the Fawn Silver, especially, would have made sense in the early development of the breed.

It should be a recessive trait, if this is the case, and test breeding and careful selection should be able to eliminate it.

I suspect the problem with scattered white hairs arising in solid Polish out of brokens may have to do with the broken modifiers masking the presence of the si gene until it appears in the solid colored offspring. This, obviously, should not be a problem we necessarily have to contend with, and since we do have rabbits available to us that do not carry the si gene, or at least exhibit it, breeding the silvered rabbits to non-carrier should produce Si (Which would carry but not show silvering, as opposed to si which show it,) rabbits in the first generation, as it seems to have done in my case. I suspect, however, that if my doe had taken when bred to her sire, that all of the offspring would have been similarly silvered. If I were planning to breed the doe again, I would like to try the breeding once more just to prove this theory.

[tundratreasures]

yeah, that is kinda what I thought myself, but if you look at it from the pattern side, (i guess I'll have to pluck some, in solid polish, like my wife's blue, the hair is pure white) and if can be a very low saturation pattern??

Damn dominates and semi's makes it like whack a mole.

[rachel]

www.rabbitcolors.info/int/en/entry/show.html?id=356

Is this pretty much what the genetic code for a silvered Thrianta would be?

[rachel]

Or would it be one of these plus the si modifier?

www.rabbitcolors.info/int/en/entry/show.html?id=349

www.rabbitcolors.info/int/en/entry/show.html?id=382

[tundratreasures]

I guess that you are playing with the Rufus and black modifiers, a lowered rufus would affect the depth of the wide band and quality of the red, where the black modifier would cause the very light tail and vent, and eye rings that we see, but with a great wrap. I have a doe like that.

[tundratreasures]

Oh, still don't know where the white ticking comes from